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The Wikipedia article for chess variants, at one point said 'The broad definition of chess variants is so universal, it may include nearly any abstract battle game or war game'. That said, at which point does a variant become a wargame? Good question. The answer depends on who you ask.
I think we're crossing the line once we add dice rolls. I also think that line is crossed when the opening setup is asymmetrical or when there is hidden information ('fog of war'). The reason for having one move all of their pieces (in any order they choose) in a single turn is to make the game impervious to traditional computer analysis. - Sam |
In reading over issues regarding Glinski's Hexagonal Chess, my Catapults of Troy, and Sam T's not-yet-in existence 'Crossing the Rubicon' (including the well written Joe Joyce wargaming comment)... Sam now has enough ideas and enough distance from Catapults of Troy that I feel I should step out of this scene. Also, in regard to all pieces moving at once [on a side], I recommend looking at the game 'Conquest' by Donald Benge. In Donald's game you have Elephants, Chariots, Ships, etc. His later variant includes Catapults and Siege Engines. Anyway, in that game you can move several pieces on a turn. Mr. Benge and I corresponded for about a year in regards to Conquest and we tried to get it going in over-the-board play in Ohio. It didn't happen, no fault of the game though... just too many couch potatoes in these parts... chess has even dried up in my neck of the woods. Anyway, back to the subject, the Rubicon endeavor could end up being an effort to combine elements from games of Glinski, Benge, and myself. I tried a similar 'combo-concept' when I created Shanghi Palace Chess. Though I liked the results, many others complained about it... I sure took a beating in the CV comments. May Sam's efforts go more smoothly than mine... I truly wish him well.
I just want to let you know that I liked the ideas presented in Shangai Palace, and that the game looked like a fun one to play. I think it is a shame that Zillions plays it so dang poorly, and that people were so hard on it. I really like the idea of a game where some pieces can drop and other pieces can not be dropped. Perhaps we can have a tame chessgi where only rooks and bishops can be dropped. Of course, it's very trickly to compare the value of a piece that can be dropped with a piece that can not be dropped.
Another idea: Have it so that a piece can only be dropped with certain pieces capture the piece in question. I think I have some interesting ideas in 'Crossing the Rubicon', but I think I want to get several dozen mating positions for schoolbook, and a computer program that can play it better than Zillions--my current plan is to take the guts out of ChessV and make it a Schoolbook playing engine, and hack up Winboard and Xboard to play Schoolbook instead of FIDE Chess (I once hacked xboard to play Grand Chess, so I know this can be done). Once that is done, maybe I'll consider a variant besides Schoolbook. There are a zillion variants out there; just not enough what I would consider fully-developed variants. It's a shame there isn't as much interest in board games as there used to be in Ohio. I think this is because people are playing online games instead. I never went for online games; if I am playing someone at Chess and losing, I want to be 100% certain that my opponent is not cheating so I can feel that he is winning fairly. I can never do that on the internet. I think an essential human element is lost when people interact with computer screens instead of real live people. - Sam |
Sam commented that - 'It's a shame there isn't as much interest in board games as there used to be in Ohio. I think this is because people are playing online games instead.' GKG response: I need to clarify, it is really the 'my neck of the woods' part of Ohio (east of Cleveland, along the Lake). Other areas of Ohio: Cleveland (south of it and west), Akron, Dayton, Columbus, and Cincinnatti seem to still be doing well at chess. I managed to run a city club in my area from 1996 up to 2005. Even had rated USCF tournaments.... the last one had 3 people sign up. And the city's support for chess went belly-up. Sam also wrote: 'I never went for online games; if I am playing someone at Chess and losing, I want to be 100% certain that my opponent is not cheating so I can feel that he is winning fairly. I can never do that on the internet. I think an essential human element is lost when people interact with computer screens instead of real live people.' GKG response: I certainly understand. I had actually quit playing on-line and e-mail games for that very reason. Then I was happy to find Chess Variants and I thought, 'Great, games that computers can't play.' But then I found out that lots of games could be played by computers.... even my own Pillars of Medusa (my first game)... I believe that the only true fair games are the ones we can play over-the-board, face-to-face, in one sitting (no adjournments). But with players scattered all over the world, we simply must be appreciative on the positive aspects of computers and games which are: 1) they provide a means of playing against other people, all over the planet 2) they provide a good training arena 3) they make for easier write up of game literature (chess books, etc) 4) they allow for the creation/presentation of complicated games, that seem to need computer intervention in order to enforce actions that the human-mind can find time consuming. Time Travel Chess, for example, is well at home on the computer...without it, the re-visiting of the past becomes more time consuming and prone to error. 5) With this CV site (and possibly others like it) the computer provides a means for us to quickly create and share new games. They allow for game communications (talking) between players and developers, thus speeding up game evolution. I think these positives highly outweigh the one negative, which is that some opponents might sit back and enjoy a burgandy, and while you think you are playing against them, are instead playing against a silicon monster.
Although it might be hard to tell whether an online opponent is cheating at Chess, it is much easier for many Chess variants. When there is no strong software available for playing a game, that's a good guarantee that your opponent isn't cheating. In fact, I prefer to play some games online, rather than against my computer, just because I know I can find a stronger opponent in a human. Also, in my own case, I find that playing against a computer lacks the human element of playing against someone online. It isn't quite the same as playing against someone in person, but it does let me play against people I would otherwise never even meet, and that's a good thing.
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