[ List Earliest Comments Only For Pages | Games | Rated Pages | Rated Games | Subjects of Discussion ]
Comments by AntoineFourriere
Djambi is a four-player game on a 9x9 Board. Each player plays alone, but temporary alliances are encouraged, and the players are allowed to 'counsel' (promise, threat, supplicate...) one another.
<P>A player has nine pieces: a Chief, an Assassin, a Reporter, a Provocator, a Necromobile and four Militants.
The Militants move as two-square Queens, the other pieces as full Queens.
When a Chief is killed, his owner is eliminated from the game and the killer takes over all his remaining pieces.
<P>All killed pieces (the pieces are flat disks with one black face) remain on the Board and hamper the moves of the living pieces.
<P>The Chief, the Assassin and the Militants capture by replacement, but a piece captured by the Chief or the Militants is dropped on any empty square while a piece captured by the Assassin is dropped on the Assassin's departure square.
The Reporter captures by orthogonal contact after moving, which sounds like it should unbalance the game.
The Provocator and the Necromobile do not kill. The Provocator can replace any enemy living piece and place it anywhere on the board (excepted on the central square, if that piece isn't a Chief). The Necromobile can replace any dead piece and place it anywhere on the board (same exception).
<P>A player whose Chief stands on the the central square, or Labyrinth, plays at every other turn. The Labyrinth can be occupied only by a Chief, though an Assassin, a Militant, a Provocator or a Necromobile can go on the Labyrinth to kill or move a Chief (in the latter case, a dead Chief killed by the Reporter) and move away immediately, by playing again in the same turn.
<P>A Chief whose all neighbors are dead is killed, unless he stands on the Labyrinth.
<P><br>You can download the rules (in French, but with graphics) <A href='http://reglesdejeux.free.fr/regles/djamb_rg.pdf'>there</A>.
Will stalemating one's opponent at Glinski be worth 1, 3/4 or 1/2?
Sergei Korchitsky, Byelorussian International Grand Master and vice-president of the IHCF, has a <A
href='http://www.loktev.h1.ru/hexachess/'>site</A> with 20 <A
href='http://www.loktev.h1.ru/hexachess/Theory/exercises.php'>problems</A>, more than 200 <A
href='http://www.loktev.h1.ru/hexachess/Theory/debut.php'>games</A> played in four tournaments between 1994 and 1998, nearly half of which start with 1. Ndf4 (the moves are in English), and a few other pages in Russian covering <A
href='http://www.loktev.h1.ru/hexachess/rules.php'>rules</A> (stating that a Bishop is worth 3 Pawns, a Knight 4, a Rook 8 and a Queen 16), <A
href='http://www.loktev.h1.ru/hexachess/Theory/strateg.php'>strategy</A> (3 images), <A
href='http://www.loktev.h1.ru/hexachess/Theory/taktik.php'>tactics</A> (28 images) and <A
href='http://www.loktev.h1.ru/hexachess/Theory/ends.php'>endgames</A> (10 images).
Mike Nelson's criteria look right on track. One could add that Chess on a Longer Board is not an Ultima Variant simply because the Withdrawer isn't too weak in CLB, although I guess a King, a Withdrawer, an orthogonal Coordinator, an orthogonal Immobilizer, diagonal Chameleons, Jumping Chess Knights and Pawns stepping one or two squares vertically forward but capturing custodially diagonally would still add up to an Ultima variant.
Regarding pieces which simply capture by relative positions, one Advancer (a Pushme-Pullyu is too strong, and a FIDE-Queen not very different), one Long-Leaper and one finely-tuned Archer seem enough. The Swapper, which like the Immobilizer, the Chameleon or the Shield, is a piece of its own nature, also combines two mechanisms, mutual capture and mutual displacement, neither of which is very powerful. Why not have the Withdrawer, which is worth less than half any other officer, recruit an enemy piece it withdraws from, instead of merely capturing it, provided that enemy piece has been previously lost? (variant: it could convert by withdrawing one square, even if that piece hasn't been captured for its side, and capture if it withdraws two or more squares) This raises the problem of Pawn recruitment. Should the Pawns be dealt with individually, mirror-like, or could a Pawn replace any other Pawn? I would suggest to make Pawns simply faithful. (Unmakers require a similar decision.)
Maybe there should be some feedback regarding the reception of preferences, such as a star in front of the name of the contestants, just in case one e-mail got lost.
1. No, a Pincer Pawn can capture up to three pieces in different orthogonal directions, but it cannot capture two pieces in a row. 2. Yes, a Withdrawer can capture by withdrawing diagonally, a Long Leaper by jumping diagonally, an Immobilizer paralyzes diagonally and though a Coordinator captures in an orthogonal way, it may be through a diagonal move (say King on d1, Coordinator moving from h1 to b6 captures enemy pieces at b1 and d6).
Regarding Jacks and Witches, I believe a)it is R=7, C=5 (a Rook is worth two Cannons in Chinese Chess, and although my Can(n)ons are obviously stronger than Cannons, the diagonal moves suffer from the shape of the board) b)all three games ended with the help of quick blunders which lost the King once and the Witch twice.
I don't believe piece-type density is so relevant. Pocket Mutation Chess is an excellent game with a lot of piece types. To me, the acid test is that the pieces aren't difficult to memorize. (But of course, Pocket Mutation Chess can't be simply defined by its armies. There must be a different standard for PMC or Anti-King Chess than there is for games which simply pit two armies, like Chess, Xiangqi, Shogi or Ultima. (TakeOver Chess and Alice, which are blending classic pieces with new rules that make them formally equivalent to the introduction of new pieces, must lie somewhere in-between.) While Tamerspiel and all Shogi variants look overbloated, Chess on a Longer Board with a few pieces added, which features only two unusual pieces, passes that test. There is also a sense of legitimacy. Rooks, Knights and Bishops appear in several historic variants, while many Japanese types, and perhaps even the Gold and the Silver Generals, seem to have originated out of the blue from the brain of a drunk goblin. Conversely, the lack of some pieces may be disturbing. I tend to decree that, on a square board, a piece other than a Pawn should have its 'hippogonally symmetric' equivalent (that is, a piece with its orthogonal moves turned diagonal and vice versa, such as the Rook for the Bishop or the Queen for itself) on the board. Although Chinese Chess features an interesting opposition between (mainly) orthogonal attackers and diagonal defenders, Shako feels strange with its orthogonal Cannons and diagonal (Firz+Alfil)s known as Elephants but not the corresponding Vaos and (Wazir+Dabbabah)s. (Eurasian Chess, or my Can(n)on-featuring games offer that symmetry, but one can't help wonder why pieces which hop one piece to capture are legitimate, but pieces which hop two or more pieces to capture are absent. Absent too are pieces which are always hopping, like the Korean Cannon, or pieces which hop neutrally, but capture as riders. Why? Legitimacy is in the eye of the beholder, might comment Peter Aronson, but the feeling remains that if two closely-related pieces look as legitimate as each other, say Pao and Vao, or Camel and Zebra, and one doesn't stand on the board, maybe the other also doesn't deserve to stand there. Fusing them into a somewhat downgraded brand, like a Can(n)on which is most of the time a Cannon and the rest of the time a Canon or a Falcon which is a lame Camel + Zebra, seems the best answer.) Thus, although Heroes Hexagonal Chess is interesting, I would prefer three colorbound, clearly-defined Bishops to pieces which can move two squares in this situation or three squares in that situation. (Bishops differ enough from Rooks that, though they remain legitimate on hexagons, the Glinski Queen becomes as contrived as a Marshall or a Cardinal.) Which hints as another presentation of the same idea: if you don't remember the exact rules one month after having read and reread them, the game may be somewhat objectionable. Regarding exchanges, it is certainly important to have pieces of comparable values. I prefer Chess to Grand Chess, but Grand Chess offers much more assymmetric endgames, say Queen against Marshall. In Chess, you usually trade a Queen for a Queen. Period. (CLB is even better in that respect.) Etcetera/Hexetera, which forbids the capture of the major pieces by their opposite numbers, is also efficient in leading quickly to assymetric armies. Chess has to content itself with assymetric positions. Another important criterium in my view is to have piece types which exert comparable influences. (That criterium is a bit of the other side of having assymetric exchange opportunities.) Chess is very good in that 2 Rooks are slightly superior to 1 Queen, which is slightly superior to 8 Pawns, which are slightly superior to 2 Bishops, which are slightly superior to 2 Knights. Conversely, I wouldn't have objected if Rococo had given two Withdrawers to each side and would indeed suggest to find a way to add one Withdrawer to Maxima (and to Ultima as long as you do not replace the second Long Leaper and the second Chameleon by an Advancer and a Swapper) but two Long Leapers unbalance an otherwise fascinating game. (Cavalier Chess, which I don't like anyway, also suffers from the presence of two Marshalls as opposed to only one Queen. I would suggest to add another Queen on a 9x8 Board.) To translate this into numbers, a useful variable would be overall strength by piecetype variance. But there is more to comparable influence than simply comparable strength. An Immobilizer is much stronger than a Coordinator, but one Coordinator still looks enough in Ultima/Maxima because it affects many decisions, such as 'can I have my Immobilizer immobilized?', as would one Shield. The overall strength is certainly important. In that respect, Chess and Shogi are both balanced. Chess pieces, which are stronger than Shogi pieces, don't switch owner when they are captured. Hostage Chess and Mortal Chessgi are in my view much better than Chessgi, because they implement offsetting mechanisms which keep reasonable armies on the Board. So, the overall strength factor should be doubled by prisoner recruitment, but only multiplied by a smaller parameter for Hostage Chess and Mortal Chessgi, leading to a mildly pathological result only for Chessgi. (True, Takeover Chess is even more shaky than Chessgi - the pieces there are very powerful: a piece can be captured, or converted - and remains enjoyable, but then again, there must be a different standard for games which come up with new rules and for games which simply pit new armies. Besides, not all the pieces in TOC remain on the Board.) There is also the problem of White's initial advantage. A number of games, including PMC or Pocket Polypiece Chess (quickly-evolving armies, both topologically and functionally) and TOC (very strong armies) or Viking Chess (quick, well-protected Pawns) may have an automatic win at Grand Master level. Finally, the fact that Zillions plays a game badly (AKC, in particular) is also a good sign.
Regarding George's comment, I'm considering overall strength by piece-type. EG would value the Queen similarly whether there is one, two or eight Queens on the Board. I think one Queen is better for Chess and two Queens would be better for Cavalier Chess, because they better match the overall strengths of 2 Rooks, 8 Pawns, 2 Bishops and 2 Knights in the former case, and of 2 Marshals, 2 Cardinals, 2 Nightriders and 8 Cavaliers in the latter case. On 10x10 or even 12x8 (without a hole), a Bishop is significantly stronger than a Knight -- the Omega Chess pages suggest Q=12, R=6, B=4, C=4, W=4, N=2(.5) -- and a third (Pocket?) Knight would make sense. (Of course, I didn't follow my own advice on ClB, but there were other pieces to drop, and the armies were strong enough, an argument which makes some sense for Cavalier Chess too, but that Queen/Marshall or Queen/Cardinal disparity still bothers me.) A third Nightrider for Cavalier Chess on a 9x8 Board would also be mathematically consistent, but maybe two Nightriders exert enough influence on the nervous systems of the players, like one Coordinator in Ultima/Maxima.
Pawn 1, Swapper 3, Long-Leaper 5, Queen 5, Pushmepullyu 6, Shield 7, Immobilizer 9, Archer 9.
Can one castle under or through check, now there is no check? (Zillions' own zrf keeps castling as usual, but it's no proof, since their zrf for Berolina Chess has no en passant.)
Thanks to R. Wayne Schmittberger for the following answer to the above question: I don't remember the castling question being asked before, or being settled. But I think that it would be in keeping with the spirit of the game to allow castling when in check, as well as to allow castling through check. For the same reason, it should be legal to move into check, even though your opponent can then win by taking your king. R. Wayne Schmittberger
I have Windows XP and the bmps I cannot open with Zillions are also those I cannot open with Microsoft Paint. They usually date back to 2000 or 2001, such as the hex6x6.bmp file for Glinski, or the boards for alf-grandchess, alf-courier, alf-chinese... as I wrote in a comment for the Omega Chess zrf. Anyway, I cannot open with Microsoft Paint the bmps which belong to the following subdirectories: Abstract-Shogi/Flip (the bmps in Abstract-Shogi are all right) Abstract-Shogi-Big, except the King Abstract-Shogi-Big/Flip, except the King. Hope this helps.
Using the evaluation version of WinZip 9.0 under XP, I get all the files, but only once I record cambodianchess.zip on my hard drive, not if I open it immediately.
Hans,
<p><u>Slide Chess</u> now has a zrf and can be moved to the main category.
<br><u>Epsilon Eridani</u> has been added as a non-competing entry.
Bug corrections: Check by Black through a Cage move is disallowed. Pawn Promotion through a Cage move to the 2nd or 7th row is disallowed.
Oops. I meant: promotion through Cage rotation is now disallowed.
OK, here's my entry:
<H2>Bifocal Chess</H2>
<P>It is the opposite of V.R. Parton's Neutral King, where both teams try to mate the same King. Here, most pieces threaten both Kings:
<BR>Something like (on a 9x9 Board):
<P>White
<BR>King e1, Man e2, Firz d2,f2, Wazir c2,g2
<P>Black
<BR>King e9, Man e8, Firz d8,f8, Wazir c8,g8
<P>Red
<BR>Rook a5,i5, Kan(n)on b5,h5, Falcon c5,g5, PS-Bishop d5,f5, Immobilizer e5, Knight a1,a9,i1,i9
<P>The Kan(n)on is a convergent, Korean-like, version of my Can(n)on. It moves as a jumping Rook or a jumping Bishop, and can change orientation at each move.
<BR>The Falcon is George Duke's Falcon in Falcon Chess.
<BR>The PS-Bishop moves as a Bishop or a Wazir.
<P>The Immobilizer doesn't affect the Kings, but it does freeze any other adjacent piece.
<P>The Man - a non-royal Chess King, the Wazir and the Firz aren't restricted to empty squares. They can swap with any adjacent Man, Wazir or Firz of their color. (Thus the Firzes are not colorbound.)
<P>The Kings move more or less by igui, that is, they are allowed a double step in any direction, but they cannot pass through a square which is threatened by a neutral piece. (Like castling, or Fergus Duniho's royal Queen in British Chess.)
<P>You must checkmate your opponent's King with a neutral piece. The Kings are weak, because they cannot capture (and it is not easy to get rid of an adjacent PS-Bishop). The Immobilizer and the non-neutral pieces do not put the Kings in check, but they stand in their way like anyone else.
<P>You cannot move the neutral piece your opponent has just moved, and you cannot move the Immobilizer if you moved it at your last turn.
I would have thought the Withdrawer to be slightly stronger than a Rook, but it seems to be the contrary when I pit four Rooks against four Withdrawers, both in David Howe's Chess on a Longer Board with a few pieces added on 10x8 and in this game on 10x10. (Rectangular boards such as 10x8 or 12x8 obviously favor the Rook over Queen-moving types.) Still, the Withdrawers (and the other pieces) should be more valuable in these games than in Ultima, because they alone offer baroque capture (other than en passant) and can easily attack a chain of Pawns.
I think four categories are enough, and that it is unnecessary to devolve a category to only Chess, Xiangqi and Shogi. I would suggest: Classic: a Recognized Variant which is played by thousands of players from several countries, either through the Internet or face-to-face, and which has or deserves an International Federation, such as Chess, Xiangqi, Changqi, Shogi, Glinski, Ultima, Grand Chess, probably Bughouse and Fischer Random Chess. Vintage: a Recognized Variant that doesn't feel like it shouldn't have been Recognized, such as Alice Chess, Extinction Chess, Marseillais Chess, Omega Chess, Pocket Knight Chess, CWDA and a few others. Popular: a Variant which is played routinely on this server and is doing well on polls, but which doesn't qualify yet for a higher rating and whose exact rules may still be discussed, such as Anti-King Chess, Switching Chess, Pocket Mutation Chess or Rococo and twenty or thirty other games when there are dozens of new games on Game Courier each day. Ancient: To save Chaturanga, Tamerlane Chess, Los Alamos Chess... and the CVPA acronym.
25 comments displayed
Permalink to the exact comments currently displayed.