Comments/Ratings for a Single Item

Yes, I prefer Circular Chess. And I think that Carlos Cetina choice 'Symmetric Chess' looks better than many other choices. I don't think that who is first is right. Who gives interesting variants and who will play this games in tournament must have right to choose variants.

I want to advertise this tournament on some russian sites. So variants must be interesting for players, not for inventors. Inventors likes their variants and has problems with critics on its. What I offer is not variant of mine (like Cardinal Chess), but interesting and original variant.

The Hakku (White Horse) in the 15x15 variant Dai Shogi moves the same as the W-Flyer in Sam Trenholme's [2009-12-03] Comment. The Keigei (Whale) has the reverse Bishop movement. Neither of these pieces are found in WHALE SHOGI.

Unfortunately, I cannot find the time to play in a major tournament in 2010. Good luck to all of you!

I want to describe what I want to see, not as a offer (I offered Circular
Chess), but as I want to see for beginners. 'The theme is a game that
is good for introducing Chess players to Chess variants.':

Fisher Random. It is a most well known chess variant.

Crazyhouse - also popular. Dropping ability can be very useful to
understand Shogi and other variants.

Weak pieces variant (Heavy Gravity Chess or Modern Shatranj or Hypermodern
Shatranj).

Eurasian Chess. It is a good way to understand cannons.

Circular or Hex chess (different type of board).

Capa Chess. Cardinals and Chancellors are used in many chessvariants.
Amazons are too strong and I don't like it, but it's only my preference.

In my opinion, such variants can give some popularity for tournament. If
another, tournament will be played by habitues of Game Courier, not by
beginners. Maybe I'm wrong.

Sam Trenholme said:
>>OK, based on Fergus’ “first come first serve”, and only allowing a 
>>person to choose one variant (the first one they mention), here are the 
>>variants proposed (links to the proposals in this thread):

Joe Joyce proposed both Great Shatranj and Modern chess.

Sam,

One rule I'm sticking to is that a game must be programmed for the tournament. I am willing to relax the first-come first-served rule if you guys want to work on a consensus. But I'm going to leave the power to decide on the games in the hands of the people whose choices I've already listed (or their successors if anyone drops out). My job will be to make sure that the games match the criteria for this tournament's theme.

I notice that H.G. hasn't actually stated his intention to sign up, but he isn't the only one. So far, Joe Joyce, Vitya Makov, Nicolas Wolff, Carlos Cetina, mirari, and myself are the only ones to explicitly state our intention to sign up for the tournament. Others, including yourself, have only suggested games. I am presently assuming that they intend to play in the tournament, but I will need confirmation of this to know whether I should include their picks in the tournament.

Vitya,

I think I have played Circular Chess before and didn't think much of it. From the perspective of preparing people for other variants, which seems to be something you have on your mind in making your list, Hexagonal Chess has the advantage that hexagonal variants are more common and more popular than circular variants. My experience with Glinski's Hexagonal Chess in a previous tournament is that it is a good game. Other than that, it looks like a good list.

Given the list we already have, I think Ajax Orthodox Chess is worth keeping. I continue to stand by my pick of Eurasian Chess, and it looks like Sam may give us a Capa variant. A weak pieces variant is on the list with Joe's Hypermodern Shatranj. That leaves Knightmate, which may at least be a good introduction to having a royal piece that is not a King.

Fergus,

I am joining the tournament too.

Jose

Sam,

You have just reinvented Duniho's Capablanca Variant. It appeared in my original Chess,_Large.zrf file, and I later removed it because I realized it just mirrored Carrera's Chess. Well, it's gratifying to know that thousands of computerized trials with different setups have led you to recreate a game I created 11 years ago when I was just starting out inventing Chess variants. :) Here's what I wrote about it in that ZRF: 'I agree with Hans Aberg about placing the Knights toward the center, but I disagree with his estimation that the Rook-Knight piece is weaker than the the Bishop-Knight piece. So I think his suggestions would lead to a less balanced placement of pieces. In this variation, Knights are closer to the center, and the Archbishop and Marshall begin on the same sides Capablanca began them on.'

In this tournament I propose that we only have variants which have never been tried before. There are thousands of variants that have never been tried. Why pick up variants that are played on other servers and have been played here before? This organization should promote new variants, and not keep to already played ones. Other servers already play many chess variants regularly. Chess Variant pages should always try new ideas. Gustav III's Chess is a good example. In this way the debate about the pros and cons of the Amazon can reach a decision. Is it a good piece or not? How does this historical game work? In this way, also, we avoid the problem that many people have already played certain variants and thus have an advantage.
/Mats

'Hexagonal Chess has the advantage that
hexagonal variants are more common and more popular than circular variants.'

Yes, but some people have problem with piece moving on hex board. I had this problem with knights. Also Hex Bishop is problematic piece. Circular Chess is more simple and I think two fronts of attack gives to this game interesting possibilities.

'That leaves Knightmate, which may at least be a good introduction to having a royal
piece that is not a King.'

All variants are good. But is knightmate better than Crazyhouse? I don't think so. By playing Crazyhouse you can learn to drop.

'Gustav III's Chess is a good example.'

In my opinion it's a bad example. Two powerful Amazons on such board.... Hmm.

'Is it a good piece or not?'

Maybe it is a good piece, but not for 64 or 68 squares, and not two.

'There are thousands of variants that have never been tried.'

These variants can be played without tournament. There are no thousands of variants that match the criteria for this tournament's theme.

'In this tournament I propose that we only have variants which have never been tried
before.'

I cannot agree with such criteria.

Lol @ everyone.

Everyone keeps making suggestions to modify the tournament.  Fergus has already made known the specifications to this tournament.  I think it is a great idea and he is doing a damn fine job of making it.  

Lets run this tournament how the creator is intending it to run it and we'll save the other tournament suggestions for later.  For instance, I love the idea of playing variants that haven't been played on the server, yet.  Maybe that can be the next tournament.  Please keep in mind, however, that Fergus is intending to make sure those games have rule enforcement.  

I also like how the previous tournaments where.  Many games and everyone could choose what ones they were going to play.  

But for now, lets make it easy on Fergus and just go with what he has annotated, saving the other ideas for later.  Just a thought :)

Hypermodern Shatranj
Eurasian Chess
Circular Chess (or Hex Chess)
Ajax Chess 
Capa variant

I offer to change Knightmate for Fisher Random or Crazyhouse. It is most popular chessvariants in russian community. With such variants I hope my future advertising will work. With Knightmate and without Fisher Random or Crazyhouse it wouldn't work. 99%.

Also do H. G. Muller participate in tournament?!

Vitya, if you know chess then you should understand that the Amazon is less wild in a cramped board situation. On a big board, however, it would have enormous scope. Gustav III's chessboard might be just the right environment for the Amazon. This could be a good variant and should not be rejected off-hand. I think it's wrong that the tournament activity on the Chess Variants pages misses the opportunity to test variants, but instead includes already played variants.
/Mats

According to Fergus' post: 

'So far, Joe Joyce, Vitya Makov, Nicolas Wolff, Carlos Cetina, mirari, and myself are the only ones to explicitly state our intention to sign up for the tournament.'

... therefore, I think I am entitled to choose a variant, and my choice is Gustav III's Chess by Mats Winther.

Me, Nick, Jeremy and Carlos are test all variants by playing its in alphabetical order.
We've played 007 Chess. Now we plays 10 Directional... But many of these games is not for a such tournament for beginners.

I believe that two amazons gives big advantage for White. And any chessmaster know how to win this game. On our level it is more playable game. But Amazon is exotic piece, that can be played without tournament. Cardinal and Chancellor is used in more variants than Amazon. I've played Gustav III and won it.

If there is a problem which variant to choose: Capa or Gustav, lets vote. I vote for Capa. 

I'm not a fan of Fisher Random or Crazyhouse. But these games can give popularity for tournament. And then beginners will play 007, 008, Grand Amazon and many others on Game Courier.

Of course, it is up to the other participants to make their own choices, but my opinion is that the tournament is better served by offering variants one can't play competitively at other sites. (I know of Brainking and Scheming Minds which both offer several variants... for example, here are stats from Brainking.

Knightmate: 62 games in progress
Loop Chess (which is between CrazyHouse and ChessGi): 219 games in progress
Fischer Random Chess: 109 games in progress
Embassy Chess: 104 games in progress

... my impression is that this is a larger and more active community for the games supported than what game courier has, and that it therefore makes no sense to foster competition between chess variants sites by arranging tournaments in the same variants.

What has tempted me to sign up for Game Courier is instead all the variants not available elsewhere - both the above mentioned sites have, compred with Game Courier, a rather limited selection of variants (a fact which they do make up for with having a much larger playerbase for those variants).

So, to tempt people to come here, it would from my view make more sense to play to Game Courier's strength, i.e. the large number of variants supported here that is not available elsewhere.

'Vitya, if you know chess then you should understand that the Amazon is less wild in a cramped board situation. On a big board, however, it would have enormous scope.'

Cannot agree with you. Amazons knight move works fine on a smaller board.

Mirari, looks like you not a beginner in chess variants. :) 

If I understand correct Fergus idea is not in originality of variants, but as introduction to chessvariants... to main ideas of many variants.

'Mirari, looks like you not a beginner in chess variants. :)'

I guess not :) During the past year, me and my irl chess playing partner have tried up towards a hundred different variants, many of them from these pages.

'Mirari, am I right that Amazon Chess is played at BrainKing?'

Yes, you are correct, and I do not find Amazon chess a very good variant. The reason is that it is too easy to force the amazons to get traded off early on, and then you find yourself playing what amounts to a standard chess position with queens traded off.

In my very limited experience with Gustav III's chess, this is not the case there, for three reasons:
*/ The amazons start out in the extra corner squares, they are much less exposed to early attacks by opposing amazons.
*/ You have two of them - so it is not enough to trade off just one pair to get rid off them.
*/ You still have the normal Queen in the normal spot, which leads to threats to trade a queen for an amazon.

Also, even if both pairs get traded off, one is at least still not, due to the extra corner squares, reduced to playing a standard chess position.

'The reason is that it is too easy to force the amazons to get traded off early on, and then you find yourself playing what amounts to a standard chess position with queens traded off.'

We can play it and I can show you that is not easy to force...