[ List Earliest Comments Only For Pages | Games | Rated Pages | Rated Games | Subjects of Discussion ]
Comments by rescharn
Indeed, Derek, there is actually only a twin of chessbox.de at 10x8.net. I plan to build a site dedicated to 10x8 chess programming and a coming Mac OS X based successor of SMIRF named 'CapTen' for Capablanca and 10x8.
Hi Greg, congratulations to you for to proceed with your project now at your own site! There are so few good performing multivariant programs, thus it would have been a pitty to miss your ChessV with its always increasing strength. I got the new version 0.9.2 here - SMIRF now has to improve, for not to be surpassed by it (as already done in supporting much more variants). ;-) Finally I have to remark three details: I am still missing to hear some sound after a move is done, Embassy Chess seems not to support castlings yet, could the PV line consist of more than one move?
Hi Mats! I do not know to wich variant you are referring. SMIRF actually does not use any opening library even for established starting arrays, to not hide possible weaknesses during opening, which should be covered by an improved evaluation function, which in SMIRF is not stage depending but constant during the whole game. Regarding that aspect SMIRF already is handling openings not badly, so in your case it would be recommended to post me such a critizised example privately. To your prior suggestion to include some special variant in SMIRF: I am about to rewrite the whole SMIRF project and to migrate it to Mac OS X. I will remember such proposals and see then, what could be done. At the first sight your variant is matching the FullChess criteria to be included. Regards, Reinhard.
Hi Mats, it is not clear, which version of SMIRF you are using. I found here a differing better behaviour. Nevertheless SMIRF was not intended to play well in Blitz (though it mostly plays acceptable), it has been designed to think rather positionally, thus it needs some thinking time to create really good moves. It should make sense to discuss such questions to games in different chess fora or by private mail. Additionally SMIRF is able to create game PGN files, which are more recommended to be used in postings, because they could be marked, copied and pasted directly into SMIRF to be replayed. Regards, Reinhard.
Hi Mats! It seems necessary to explain something of SMIRF's concept. This program is designed to gain a maximum output at a minimum input. You might have noticed, that SMIRF's single multivariant engine is sized only about 60K (72K for the bonus version). Its intention is to reach success WITHOUT implemented chess knowledge (during the first stages of its development). Instead the goal is to create something like a machine intelligence REPRODUCING human behavior NOT by design but maybe only by chance. If you notice a less successful behavior (as you have reported) the solution of this thus would not be to implement chess knowledge as done in a lot of other chess programs, but to make the inner functions more appropriate, on what I am always working. There is nearly nothing less intelligent (despite of being successful) as to have a lot of looking up knowledge inside of a program. Nevertheless SMIRF should be able to handle sufficiently such things like Zugzwang, passed pawns and opposition by its own means.
Hi Mats, you are arguing for a fast creating of a good chess playing program. A lot of programmers act like that. They establish a lot of methods to copycat human behavior and to replace intelligence by always growing looking up tables, calling this e.g. position learning. (Moreover they copycat each other among some few creative authors of OpenSource projects.) But that is not at all the kind of learning which deserves that name, instead it is a continued replacing of intelligence (which is proving itself by good results at RESTRICTED means) by stupid looking up. I do not claim, that that common modus operandi would not gain success, in chess it created programs better playing than human masters, and checkers seems to be solved by that. But that method might fail at more complex games like already 10x8 chess or anyway at the 19x19 go game, because it is an anti-intelligent approach. Regard the SMIRF project as an intermediate drosophila for to find methods to handle the go game much later using the made experiences.
Hi Mats, please have a look on that, what you have said. You are using such names like 'central squares' or 'established chess laws'. But that kind of arguing is just the problem. Why are central squares that important? Where is the center in different chess960 games, where the king himself might be decentralized? By that you learn, that such categories are derived from more essential but abstract things. Another more transparent example are the average piece exchange values: where do those traditional values come from? What is with that at different variants? At my webpage you will find a simple theory to derive such values even for unusual piece types or board sizes. As I tried to tell you, I am not interested in that kind of chess knowledge, where it at least leads to a simple implementing of a copycat behaviour. If you want to create an effective and INTELLIGENT chess program, you first have to UNDERSTAND the basics of chess, not to imitate the so called chess knowledge, which is moreover differing enormously depending on which chess master you will ask. Then you will have to TRANSLATE it into the world and language of a CPU. Today there are a lot of effective but mostly huge chess programs. So there is no urgent need for to write another one. But on the other side there are very few intelligently working approaches using instead very restricted means. I am arguing for to have computer chess program tournaments with LIMITED means, especially targeting the persistant storage size including the program executeable. They should be bound to a special upper bound. And it should be measured in a packed form e.g. as RAR for to skip inner redundancies as generated depending of the selected computer language and to avoid the temptation to undergo any limits by including packed knowledge.
The future of SMIRF: well, in the meantime there have been some questions from different sides, what will be with SMIRF. First, I am about to migrate it to the Mac OS X. That is, because I am angry about MS Vista and its unsufficient driver set (especially 64 Bit), its bad behaviour against programmers and its several backdoors for government, police or secret service investigations targeting every file on a Vista system (as I prosume). In contrast Mac OS X is again going to create a homegeneous 64 Bit user landscape starting with coming OS X Leopard version. SMIRF will become 64 Bit then. There will be no big speed step by that, because SMIRF is no a bitboard based program. But it will use the grown register set, and it will then benefit from any compiler optimization improvement. I remember days, where I investigated to have an ARM RISC processor based solution, but there are currently no fast desktop systems or sponsors, which would provide me with such a development environment. Thus I stay on Intel/AMD64 based hardware (unfortunately also without any sponsor yet). SMIRF will not be merely migrated to Mac OS X. I intend to have a lot of new design elements: a) redesign the internal data structure and caching logic b) rewrite the position detail evaluation function (which is still the first slow draft, may be a 200% speed up then) c) support additionally also an additional piece (General = N+B+R) d) support blocked squares (to customize the playable square zone) e) build in prompting (instead of badly working permanent brain) f) attempt to implement multithreaded multiprocessor usage g) create a separated unit for to contain move logic and pgn file maintenance beside of the GUI h) attempt to have a UCI protocol based GUI That is a huge project and will need a remarkable amount of my free time. So do not wait for a finished Mac OS X version in the near future. May be some of then made progresses will be reimplemented into the working Windows 32 Bit solution, but from now on possible updates would only be published for the donators' bonus version. Reinhard.
Hi Mats, a 10x10 board exceeds my actually used numeric base structures. Thus I do not yet support such big boards. 9x9 boards would be possible with some restrictions, but to support e.g. Shogi is beside of my current intentions. If I would ever implement a second engine line, that probably would support something like the Go game. Reinhard.
Hi Mats, one of my first goals is to make SMIRF play self-containedly especially through the opening stage. I am happy, that this works even for randomized starting positions half-way sufficiently. To manipulate the opening behaviour to gain more success simply by adding some quirks instead of modifying the global model concept will destroy the chance of finding an abstract and consistent base model. Still I am e.g. not fully satisfied with my average piece value model, and the evaluation function is three times as slow as necessary. Nevertheless I have thoughts to distribute a predefined amount of evaluation to be randomizedly disposed in chosing second class moves during the beginning to gain a less determinated play at fixed opening arrays. Actually I still recommend to play Chess960 or 10x8 CRC to have more diversified game experiences.
Hi, Mats, beside of the fact, that the Windows distribution of SMIRF still is the only one and just has been updated (in the bonus version), it does not matter to me, how many people are using Smirf, but in contrast it does, how many are really supporting it. And, because of this number is nearly vanishing, I simply decided do migrate to Mac OS X because of software political reasons. Yesterday I have published on my web site my new model for calculating the average piece exchange values for various gaits, both: simplified and improved, at http://www.chessbox.de/Compu/schachansatz1_e.html. Reinhard.
Hi Mats, let me explain, that my understanding of AI is NOT simulating anything but developing solutions genuine to machine. Intelligent behavior is not merely imitating. Now, how to support the SMIRF project: a) intellectually: by showing interest, writing comments, testing, giving constructive critic, mentioning the SMIRF project where it would make sense. There is no need to exceed intellectual limits, we all mostly are specialists, thus don't worry when there will be gaps, I don't either. b) financially: where fans like to use the SMIRF program, they should be aware, that there are costs for organizing and maintaining hard and software, e.g. actual development environments, and that it needs a lot of time, wherein no money could be earned. Thus it makes sense to those people to place some donations via paypal.
The world seems to be not interested in SMIRF's 8x8 and 10x8 concept. Regards, Reinhard.
Well, Sam, I am not that rich, so it would help somehow to have some minor contributions e.g. for to buy some more recent development tools and for to update my hardware from time to time. But it is more disturbing to experience people seeing no value in such software as long it is free. Thus freeware is devaluating the scene and does a bull's job to chess variant software. Making the entry version of SMIRF a donationware should have been signaling that message, but most of SMIRF's users nevertheless mixed that kind of releasing up with freeware. Another demotivating detail is, that though I have tried to publish all of my chess pages using both German and English languages, no (as far as I know) native English speaking chess page had been turned to become bilingual too by also supporting German, that way following my example. This makes me feel like a second class person. Therefore I have decided to no longer continue such an approach, instead I will merely use my German language, if I ever would relaunch my web site again. Thus developing Octopus out of SMIRF's bones is done rather slowly and privately. That would not exclude really interested people from contacting me or following the project, nevertheless I am ignoring the public, e.g. by chosing Mac OS X as development system, saying 'sorry' to MS Vista, and by redirecting my old site to a small German language blogging site. Reinhard.
Hi Derek, concerning the differences of our piece value models let me repeat to mention, that I later will work out a refined approach, where piece values (more precisely their mobility part) will depend on the percentage of free squares on the board. It could be then, that in practical games that could even more hide those theoretically existing differences. And I repeat to point out, that as pieces were exchanged not only their average piece values will be removed from the board but also their positional influences. My program SMIRF puts that all together when calculating the new evaluation after an exchange. Thus it is not convincing to focus merely on average piece value differences. When I see, that here a discussion is running on evaluating other game pieces, let me add some thoughts. Chess is an inertial game, that means, its evaluation is changing slowly through the game, despite of tactical errors. There are other games like Shogi, where more dynamic elements are changing that kind of lazyness. Watching evaluation trees there leads to instable search results, finally having some kind of a randomly generated value overlay. In other words, the evaluation does not that much depend on average piece values as compared to Chess, but instead much more on surprisingly rising tactical occurrences. Also CRC may be positioned a small step nearer to that behaviour seen from Chess. During the last days I also have thought over the problem on how to create a meaningful evaluation model for the game of Arimaa, which will be extremely different from Chess. I have seen there on its discussion site how people are trying to establish position depending piece values. But I doubt that this would be a promising way to do that job. Actually I believe, that pieces interdepending constellations there are much more important than such an elementary try.
A real DEATHBLOW to email contacts with US American people Well, because I am not interested in having my email postings 'legally' verified by the CIA, NSA and other 'peace securing' organisations, even without finding any suspicion against my person, I will no longer correspond with people from USA by email. Please try to avoid the USA to become a totalitarian country. So please join boycotting that raising freedom killing USA practice. Reinhard.
To those, who intend to change Chess960 via its castling rules: Please, leave Chess960 as it is. If you are convinced to have a better idea for to improve 8x8 Chess, then please do not hesitate to suggest an own variant, good luck! P.S.: Hi Echelon: I am not a member of HISBOLLAH or AL KAIDA, having no contact to BIN LADEN, also do not support any other TERROR organization and do not PLAN to ATTACK or DESTROY US American SKYSCRAPERS or BRIDGES using EXPLOSIVE materials like fluid BLASTING AGENTS or to place SEMTEC BOMBS into AIRPLANES to strike US FLIGHTS or to weaken US TROOPS e.g. by committing ANTHRAX ASSAULTS using TELECOMMANDED model AIRCRAFTS.
The challenge already has been decided. Chess480 seems to be so uninteresting to the most logically thinking people, that you seem to see a need to move that strange discussion to the Chess960 variant page, where it is in fact absolutely misplaced. Simply try to continue that discussion on a more appropriate place and analyse the echo, which might be raised there.
P.S.: Hi Echelon: I am not a member of HISBOLLAH or AL KAIDA, having no contact to BIN LADEN, also do not support any other TERROR organization and do not PLAN to ATTACK or DESTROY US American SKYSCRAPERS or BRIDGES using EXPLOSIVE materials like fluid BLASTING AGENTS or to place SEMTEC BOMBS into AIRPLANES to strike US FLIGHTS or to weaken US TROOPS e.g. by committing ANTHRAX ASSAULTS using TELE-COMMANDED model AIRCRAFTS.
P.S.: Hi Echelon: I am not a member of HISBOLLAH or AL KAIDA, having no contact to BIN LADEN, also do not support any other TERROR organization and do not PLAN to ATTACK or DESTROY US American SKYSCRAPERS or BRIDGES using EXPLOSIVE materials like fluid BLASTING AGENTS or to place SEMTEC BOMBS into AIRPLANES to strike US FLIGHTS or to weaken US TROOPS e.g. by committing ANTHRAX ASSAULTS using TELE-COMMANDED model AIRCRAFTS.
Well John, it is not a case of ignorance, but a case of construction or destruction. You are trying to destruct the idea of a working variant, maybe by reasons, you might be convinced of. Nevertheless it in contrast would be a more constructive task to embed your arguments into an independent context.
It would be counter productive, if friends of the traditional 8x8 Chess variant would be hanging bad words on FRC using the fora of its scene, just as if Chess960 enthusiasts would be trying to convert traditionalists to their favorite by polluting their communication channels to overwhelm that people by pro random arguments.
I have commented Chess480 and its castling at several places. Thus I do not see a need to repeat myself again - moreover at a wrong place.
P.S.: Hi Echelon: I am not a member of HISBOLLAH or AL KAIDA, having no contact to BIN LADEN, also do not support any other TERROR organization and do not PLAN to ATTACK or DESTROY US American SKYSCRAPERS or BRIDGES using EXPLOSIVE materials like fluid BLASTING AGENTS or to place SEMTEC BOMBS into AIRPLANES to strike US FLIGHTS or to weaken US TROOPS e.g. by committing ANTHRAX ASSAULTS using TELE-COMMANDED model AIRCRAFTS.
It would be counter productive, if friends of the traditional 8x8 Chess variant would be hanging bad words on FRC using the fora of its scene, just as if Chess960 enthusiasts would be trying to convert traditionalists to their favorite by polluting their communication channels to overwhelm that people by pro random arguments.
I have commented Chess480 and its castling at several places. Thus I do not see a need to repeat myself again - moreover at a wrong place.
P.S.: Hi Echelon: I am not a member of HISBOLLAH or AL KAIDA, having no contact to BIN LADEN, also do not support any other TERROR organization and do not PLAN to ATTACK or DESTROY US American SKYSCRAPERS or BRIDGES using EXPLOSIVE materials like fluid BLASTING AGENTS or to place SEMTEC BOMBS into AIRPLANES to strike US FLIGHTS or to weaken US TROOPS e.g. by committing ANTHRAX ASSAULTS using TELE-COMMANDED model AIRCRAFTS.
10x8 Chess is an exiting synthesis of decimal and dual approaches to board geometries preserving the Pawns' typical way to promotion and supporting all double combinations of Chess' elementary gaits of Rook, Bishop and Knight.
Even though CRC covers most of the relevant named 10x8 starting arrays (or its mirrors) there is no need to hide some specialized models because of the existing of some more popular or commercial representants. Because of that it is to be welcomed, that some balanced starting arrays will get and improve their own named life.
The public is invited to check out and popularize some of those approaches. But there is no need at all to extinguish references of such, e.g. simply because of the existence of a patented one.
Even though CRC covers most of the relevant named 10x8 starting arrays (or its mirrors) there is no need to hide some specialized models because of the existing of some more popular or commercial representants. Because of that it is to be welcomed, that some balanced starting arrays will get and improve their own named life.
The public is invited to check out and popularize some of those approaches. But there is no need at all to extinguish references of such, e.g. simply because of the existence of a patented one.
Hi Sam, again I provide a link for chess variant insiders like you: link to locally make SMIRF BC-168b available. As often repeated there also is an improved version for real donators. ;-) Best regards, Reinhard.
P.S.: could you please specify the PGN notation concerning your 10x8 extended castling rules? Because traditional O-O or O-O-O would not be always sufficient, as I presume.
Chess with Varying Squares would be interesting to me. I am working on a variant, which is modifying (under special rules) the nature of squares as an alternative to traditional chess piece moves. I would like to call it Taboo Chess. But I am not sure, whether this proposal would conform to the current contest's rules.
Because the rules still are unclear to me, I have decided not to work on a 'Chess with Varying Squares' variant entry any longer this time.
ChessV 0.9.3 seems positionally much improved. I have no more noticed that it would take over the opposites colour when being under pressure. It navigates excellent through the opening. But it might be tactically weaker now, and it does not always handle castling rules correct. See the following Embassy Chess game with SMIRF, where it refutes at least Black's castling move:
[Event 'Embassychess Game'][Site 'CHESSBOX-MAC-XP']
[Date '2007.10.15']
[Time '21:36:10']
[Round 'Testgame 1 min / move']
[White 'ChessV 0.9.3 64+16 MB Cache']
[Black 'Smirf MS-169c']
[Result '0-1']
[Annotator 'RS']
[SetUp '1']
[FEN 'rnbqkmcbnr/pppppppppp/10/10/10/10/PPPPPPPPPP/RNBQKMCBNR w mKQkq - 0 1']
1. e4 Nh6 2. Nh3 g6 3. Nc3 Nc6 4. g4 d6 5. g5 Nj5 6. d3 h5 7. Be3 Ci6 8. Qd2
Bg4 9. f3 Be6 10. O-O-O Nb4 11. d4 c5 12. d5 Bd7 13. Cf2 Qb6 14. f4 Cg7 15. Ka1
Cxc3 16. Qxc3 Bxc3 17. bxc3 Bb5 18. Md2 Nxa2 19. Kxa2 Md7 20. Ra1 Be2 21. Rb1
Qa6+ 22. Kb2 Mb6+ 23. Mb3 Ma4+ 24. Kc1 Bg4 25. Mb5 Ma2+ 26. Kd2 Qxb5 27. Rxb5
Ma1 28. Ri1 Mf1+ 29. Kd3 c4+ 30. Kd4 O-O-O 0-1
25 comments displayed
Permalink to the exact comments currently displayed.