Comments by avunjahei

If that's the Manual written by Hodges, I do know it. And you are RIGHT when you say it is first mentioned 100 years EARLIER than I claimed. I apologize. That makes it still younger than Sho and Dai Shogi EXCEPT when you argue that the Heian Dai Shogi was really a kind of Chu Shogi and The later Dai Shogi was the novelty. Dunno, you tell me!

But that the Yamashina family had a faible for Chu Shogi is meagre evidence for Chu Shogi ever being more popular than the smaller variant. On the other hand  the carpenter Minase Kanenari tell us  that between 1590 and 1602 he produced 618 sets for Sho Shog but only 106 sets for Chu Shogi (that's from the web). That also doesn't prove very much. Or does it? But I admit, I just thought that it was commonly accepted among scholars that at least in the 16th century and later Sho Shogi was dominant, and for earlier times we lack proper information. I never claimed Chu Shogi was not a popular game. Just that Sho shogi was more so.

I think when Hodges states, that Chu Shogi was the more popular game in the Kamakura period he overstretches the (few)sources we have about the game in this time. Historians do that very often. You should always reckon with that and being published by a University unfortunally does not prevent them from doing so. 

That the first tsumes and game scores come from Chu- rather than Sho Shogi I really doubt. But i cannot argue against, for I'm on holydays and the web is a very bad source for chess history. If it is right I would be very surprised.

Do you mean the game scores of Yamagata? But they are composed games, aren't they? The first scores of really played games i know are from the early 20th century, but i don't remember where i have that from.

Do you know the earliest game scores of Standard Shogi? I don't!

I believe you that they are actually played games. But you probably know that most of the extant game scores of European chess prior to the 19th century are composed games, especially in handbooks written to teach the game (for example ALL games of Greco are compositions). Also the oldest extant game scores of Chinese Chess are from such handbooks and are assumed to be compositions. So my assumption was not THAT farfetched. I do not know though if this "strange hobby" as you call it was common in Japan also.

And again, I never denied that Chu Shogi was a popular game. But I'm still not convinced that it ever was more popular than the smaller one.

So from which time are the first extant Sho Shogi game scores? Do you know that?

No I do not know any game scores of standard Shogi prior to the 19th century. And that's quite strange.

You must understand, true, I am not really sure about the situation in the Heian and Kamakura period. But in the Edo era, from the end of the 16th century on, if somebody said "Shogi" he meant the game on 9x9 squares. If he meant another variant, he had to specify. It was the most prestigious game in Japan after Go, which was - of course - the game of games. Shogi - the 9x9 game  - was promoted by the Shogunate, the government. Like in Go, the official title of Meijin for the best Shogi player was established and the annual castle tournaments were held, in the presence of the shogun or even the emperor, I'm not sure. At this time the names of the first great players are known. They all played the 9x9 game, not the bigger variants.

My sources? Are you kidding? That's so basic knowledge, you cannot dive into the history of Shogi for one afternoon without knowing that! 

And now to your statement about Standard Shogi and Shatranj being "dull" games and that just having a "look at the game" of Chu Shogi  suggests Sho Shogi would not stand a chance to rival Chu in popularity." and so on...

Now I have NO opinion at all which one is the "better" game. But you have disqualified yourself so much stating such a nonsense, that I really think that you do not know ANYTHING about what you are talking and just arbitrarily pick it from the web, and actually I do not feel like replying to you any more. Sorry, bro.

Yes, I made the same experience with him. Unfortunately there are currently some cranks around here.

But you also deleted our last game, didn't you?

Quote:

"If the problem is that the other player is not moving, add time controls to your invitations and win on time when your opponent doesn't play. This may get him to move more promptly"

I don't care that much if I win, I prefer to play. This I cannot, because he accepts every open game I create, obviously for no reason other than to prevent me from playing. I have no idea, why. Indeed, it's that childish!

I will not tell his name now. I hope he reads this and just lets me alone.

How?

ah...ok!

well, but I still cannot move.

ok, got it.

[Ed. note: I've been deleting them as they occur. As far as I know none of the scripts have changed, so I don't know why this would be happening. This post didn't duplicate either.]