Comments by CharlesDaniel

'I love chess, and I didn't invent Fischerandom chess to destroy chess. I invented Fischerandom chess to keep chess going. Because I consider the old chess is dying, or really it's dead. A lot of people have come up with other rules of chess-type games, with 10x8 boards, new pieces, and all kinds of things. I'm really not interested in that. I want to keep the old chess flavour. I want to keep the old chess game. But just making a change so the starting positions are mixed, so it's not degenerated down to memorization and prearrangement like it is today.' 

- Bobby Fischer as quoted in http://www.chess960.net/quotes

I have never heard of speed chess - unless you mean blitz or fast chess and the chess community never settled on that or whatever it is you refer to  as a 'future'.

I have always advocated playing chess variants, and with me creating so  much, of course I have some stake in this. 
But, this whole notion of past chess, chess been dead, next chess just seems utterly ridiculous.  It seems there is a far greater chance of some world wide catastrophe happening in my lifetime, like some obscure gamma ray burst from an unknown star,  or some rock from outer space string earth or nuclear war than chess dying. 

These are the numbers quoted around:
>>Today more than 285 million people play chess with other chess
players from all over the world, via the internet. It is estimated 605
million people worldwide know how to play chess. Of these 7.5 million
are registered players, covering 160 countries worldwide. Making chess
one of the most popular sports around the world.>> 

If you think these are exaggerated then explain why millions of people are registering for these chess sites?

Chess is popular despite tv, video games and interactive (m)ass media all of which should have struck a nail in its heart. 



It seems it would be far more constructive to speak about the merits of any proposed new game or system rather than harp on this supposed demise of chess and say, 'There chess  is dead, play our new untested game instead!'

These 'kludge' rules are what makes chess what it is. Take out stalemate
and the beautiful endgame studies of the past are gone. Stalemate is surely
not a win since the objective was to checkmate not to capture the king.
Change this and try this - it does not work. You are making a game with
LESS not more. 
Castling is a king safety rule - that speeds up the game and makes it more
dynamic. Take it away and try it - the game is slower and not as
interesting. Shuffle chess without castling or Fischer random - it seems
people have already decided. 

Eastern variants dont have the queen- Chinese chess the king is confined
to the palace - the stalemate =win seems more logical in that context .. 

The double pawn move and en passant go hand in hand as well. 

I have actually taught kids to play chess - and they have no problem
picking up the rules in one go. If anything, its the movement of the knight
that confuses them. 

I think what is important to note is that even the smallest rule change
has significant effect. Lets call it as it is - we are making different
chess-like games. Maybe for the chess variant community this is still chess
or next chess but for everyone else - it is a different game regardless of
how chess-like it is.

Certainly, this shows that there may be greater tactical advantage for
white in some of these setups. 
But  one would have to be careful about this -- these engines are not 
very good in openings esp in making moves that are sensible strategically.


Note that only recently are advanced chess engines making good opening
moves without a book. Zillions for example is horrible in openings. 


I believe and I am sure many would confer that the Capablanca chess
varieties are the closest to orthodox chess when considering larger
board/new pieces type of games. 

I would like to see this experiment with the foll array:

R N B Q M K A B N R 

I believe this was one patented but nevertheless would be fascinating to
compare against. 
I do not like Queen not next to king nor queen in the wing for fixed
setups. 
I believe that the Alberg variation is the best setup not just from the
results but from the the nice initial placement of pieces. 

There was some fairly good work done...[following passage removed by
editor Jeremy Good for chessvariants.org policy reasons - email me if
details are wanted]

However, I see no mention of the Alberg setup. 



Myself, I have played some Capablanca chess games and enjoyed them, but
the novelty wears off after a while .. I was of course much more interested
in 10x10 then and  now I am reverting back to 8x8 ...but thats another
story.

Thanks for your comment..
I dont have any special notation -- it may not be necessary. 
I will add a zillions preset that plays both shuffle chess and prechess using these new rules soon.

Pot Luck was a great tournament because players get to submit their own
variants. I for one will not participate in a tournament where i cant
submit my own variants. 
This 'next' chess, chess is dead thread is a bit tiresome esp in a forum
where no on is too interested in ortho chess - I would rather see this
being posted in one of many ortho chess forums for entertainment purposes! 

Nakamura said chess was dead for him at one point (because he intended a
different career) and has since renewed his interest and passion in chess
and quest to be WC. Why would he do so if its 'dead'? 
If a game was to replace chess it would do so naturally not because a few
people make their choice for others.

At this point I prefer just plain old chess (orthodox chess) or fischer
random. 
 I have not found any chess-like game on this site whose gameplay is
comparable or exceeds them.  

Perhaps its just the huge volume of literature available or that is the
most developed that makes it this way ...but there is no way I want to be
stuck on a desert island with a chess game that is too far removed from 
orthodox chess  .. On the other hand ...a 10x10 chess board with extra
pieces can still be used to play vanilla chess so this 'desert' island
theme cannot be taken literally.

To add a bit more humor to this odd little topic: 
Nakamura is currently playing this 'dead' chess very seriously despite
having the choice to simply drop the game and pursue other interests. 
Fischer decalared the original form dead well after retirement and with a
preference for his FRC form which has caught on esp for those not too
interested in learning too much opening theory. 
Must be noted that FRC uses same pieces, same board, and random arrangement
but usually gets to normal type positions during middle game. King to
Bunker Leap too with even more start positions can do this though it is a
bit less 'chess-like' than frc. 
However, even Fischer's form has not caught on as much to be considered
'next chess'.. Why? Because the average chess player cannot
learn/understand chess to the extent of a GM. For the average chess player
the game is NEVER played out and is ALWAYS creative. So while 8 GMs might
struggle to find small advantage after playing 25-30 lines of theory -
millions play completely new lines on a daily basis hacking out an average
of 5-10 blitz games in relatively short time. They drive the game not any
sanctioning body or any GM. 
One day perhaps a few decades from now but maybe more, humans would be able
to interface their brains with computers with ease. 
So what is inevitable by 2200 NOT 2020 (thats just around the corner), is
that Chess will be replaced by 
NO Chess. 
No Chess because humans having the capability of computers see no need to
use their brain alone to solve any problems and any chess-like game will
cease to be interesting.

One thing that interested readers might notice about this:  If the pieces were set up as in std chess - the game would still be slightly different: 
- a-side castling would not be same. 
- King can bunker leap after the rooks are moved. So one can develop the rook and then still 'jump' the king to 'safety' 


The reason I create and play chess variants is because of my profound interest in chess-like games. I like variety and do not want to limit myself to one form of chess. 
That being said, it is quite obvious that the number playing chess variants has been quite small. I certainly don't see myself as being in one camp vs the other. I don't see the popular form of chess as the 'ENEMY'. And I certainly cannot predict 200 yrs in the future and claim chess will be dead though it could very well be ..who knows? 
 I can guarantee though that in the near future 10-20 yrs or so orthodox chess will be as popular as it is now and will not decline. 
I think it is important to understand if the public loses interest in std chess, they surely will not be interested in any chess-like game on this site, so it isn't too wise in hoping for the demise of '64 sq chess' and corresponding emergence of 'next chess' - ain't gonna happen. 

On the other hand, getting new people interested in a variety of chess-like games - that could work ...

Very Weak players and those with zero understanding of chess may compare
chess to tic tac toe. 
It should be noted that TicTacToe3x3 IS solved. 
IF eventually chess could be solved. The 'solution' would not be very
helpful for two humans playing each other unaided. 
The entire chess is dead claim is started by players with no understanding
of chess nor computers. 

What I dont understand is how can someone compare chess to tic-tac-toe and
then proceed to look for a next chess which is based on chess anyway? Are
we then looking for a 12x12 tic tac toe then?

I think this is too tedious as well. 
Actually I would much rather modify this considerably. 

1 king 1 queen 4 rooks 4 bishops 4 knights and 1 camel/knight compound. (or zebra-wazir). 
All Pawns set up on rows 3 and 8. 
Choice of King on e or f and Queen on e or f. 
2 Rook must be on a and j
Each player gets to set up rest of pieces on first 2 rows behind pawns only. 
Castling allowed. 


This version is immensely more playable --

Big Brother is indeed forcing everyone to play orthodox/Western chess
against your will and preventing you from seeing the obvious that Chess is
dead! 
If only they would do just that and leave us alone with regard to
everything else!

Fast pawns are exactly like regular pawns except for the double step, so the usual capturing restrictions NE NW only apply. 
Super Pawns are really pieces that can promote similar to a pawn. They have no capturing restrictions. 
I adjusted the description slightly - hope its clearer.

I could say the same thing if only A and T were to play: Displacement Chess 2 or Fischer Random. In the end, a chess variant will have to stand on its own by attracting new players and not depend on those who play the orthodox variety to switch to this new game.

Hello, 
I got an email from Carlos about this tournament.  
I would bring ONE of 
1. King to Bunker Leap 
2. Shock Troops
3. Wreckage.  

in that order of priority .. 
I am not sure what the consensus or rules agreed upon - I haven't had much
time to be on chess variants lately.